Okay, this video has been spreading like a highly infectious disease on facebook with all sorts of comments about the "drop" at 13'45", and as you've probably all seen this I would like you to read on.
Note : the embedding possibility for blogs and website has also been removed.
First of all, the catch which is highly visible at 13min45sec is not a catch but a drop.
This unfortunately happened in the final of the European Ultimate Championships 2011 between Sweden and Great Britain in Maribor,Slovenia where Sweden took the gold medal after winning closely by 16-15.
There were a lot of people sitting around the field but only few had the right angle to judge that this catch wasn't really a catch.
The official rules quote this :
"12.1. A player “catches” the disc by demonstrating sustained control of a non-spinning disc.
12.2. If the player loses control of the disc due to subsequent contact with the ground or a team-mate or a legitimately positioned opposition player, the catch is deemed to have not occurred."
Seems pretty obvious that this is not a catch then, as the Swedish player lost control of the disc after making contact with the ground and then picked it up afterwards (as you can see in the picture/printscreen below)
Now, here's the point I'm trying to get at : There's no reason in starting a witch-hunt and blaming the Swedish for cheating. First of all : it was only one player who made this (very unacceptable) move. Does he need punishment ? Do the Swedes need to lose their European title ? No, they don't. Things like these probably have happened more than once before in our ever-so-spirited sport. I couldn't agree more that this is quite unacceptable and should never be done by anyone, in any game, but there's no point in blaming anyone are straight up calling them cheaters while sitting behind your own computer screen.
Secondly, and the reason I am posting this video (I didn't wanna be part of the hey-let's-trashtalk-the-swedish-online) is this and only this :
let it be an example for what not to do.
This video should be posted (as it already has) on different places not to humiliate this one person (doesn't even matter who he is or which country he comes from) but it seems like he made a very bad decision in a split second in a very tight game with high stakes. For all we know this might be this player's only chance in a lifetime to become European Champion and bad decisions get taken everywhere,by everybody at anytime.
It's probably one of the first times ever that a fake-catch like this in Ultimate has been videotaped so let's just learn a lesson from it and avoid others from doing the same.
In the end this should be the hardest lesson for the person in the video to learn, that cheating is not accepted in Ultimate even though we don't have any referees to make our decisions.Question : if you would have seen exactly the same video from a HAT tournament with only 40 players participating in a little town in let's say Bachten-De-Kuupe in Belgium, where a bunch of Ultimate players get together to have fun times,in the first game of the day where the "scoring" team is down 3-13, would you have posted it on facebook ? I'm thinking no.
Does it matter ? It might.
Are we gonna get observers because of actions like these ? Highly possible in the future.
Do we have observers right now ? No, we don't.Do we use video footage as evidence for cheating ? Never seen it before.
Are we gonna start using it ? Not anytime soon..
So use what we got, and keep reminding all players that
spirit should prevail at all times and at all costs.
I definitely wouldn't want to be exposed like this in a video where I just won a gold medal.
Bad luck ? His own mistake.
What's done is done.
I can imagine some players being somewhat mad, or disgusted but there's no point in looking back now.
Here's a little excerpt of what the player himself had to say :
"I am man enough to stand for what I did in that moment in the game, but I am also man enough to admit that it was a mistake from my side.
Now I know after being explained and read the rules in detail, that it was not a catch, that it was according to Rule 14.1 & Rule 12.2 a drop/a turnover. If I have known it back then I am 100% sure that I would have act in a different way. Yes I also know that I that have played a long time at high level should know ALL the rules big and small, but I didn’t. And believe it or not, this was the first time I was in this scenario. It was never my intent to “cheat” or “cover something up” and I apologize if some of you think that I tried to do so and got offended about it. I learn from the mistake, gain a lot of experience from it and hopefully all this will make me a better player in the future."
If you have any comments about this, please feel free to share your thoughts.
I'm curious how other people feel/think about this.
"Ik wist niet als ik de schijf laat vallen dat het turnover is"? Hoe lang speelt die gast frisbee? En dat speelt dan in een nationaal team. Sorry dat ik het zeg, maar ik vind dat ronduit zielig!
BeantwoordenVerwijderenI agree. The behaviour of the player - quickly picking up the disc like nothing happened - indicates at least a hint of doubt in the mind of this receiver, at which point he was free to ask his teammates if it was a legitimate goal. I am also completely, 100 % sure that at least one, but probably more of his Swedish teammates saw the turnover. We were sitting right in that corner and could see the whole thing from the sideline. Even IF - which I don't believe for a second - he didn't know the rules, his fellow players could and should have corrected him. Whether it be the final of a Europeans or a sparring game at practice. As soon as we start seeing a difference between those two, we need observers.
BeantwoordenVerwijderen...and then the observers misinterpret an action or take a wrong decision (e.g. it is possible that something similar happens and an observer does not see it properly). Resulting in players trying to cheat or get away with as much as possible without the observers seeing it...
BeantwoordenVerwijderenClarification: under USA Ultimate, in/out for boundary and goal lines are active calls for the observer. The question here is regarding a catch, up or down. Under USA Ultimate observing this is not an active call. A request to the observer for a ruling from either or both teams would need to be made for the observer to rule.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenNo one made the call here so Observers would not make any difference.
I didn't mean to start a discussion about observers. I was merely pointing out that it is as much the responsibility of the player as it is of his teammates. High level ultimate cannot be an excuse for purposely misreading or misinterpreting (or even ignoring)the rules. As I said in my comment above, as soon as we start seeing "this is a high-level game so his conduct is understandable" as an excuse, we admit that players are not able to make the same decisions in this game than in a simple pool play game, or even a low-stakes practice game. In this case, in my humble opinion, we would have to resort to observers - if only for finals or semifinals. I would not like this evolution personally, but if it is necessary to keep this sport fair (that may sound contradictory), we should consider it.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenJust my two (more like fifteen) cents.
You right Joren, but don't think that observers will keep this sport fair, it is not true because observers started in the early 80's in the US, and they still keep them, with more and more power.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenIn a game with observers, "back to the throw" doesn't exist ! The doubt doesn't exist... A bad decision looked better than a doubt and "back to the thrower".
Hi Patrick,
BeantwoordenVerwijderenlong time that I didn't watch a game in the US with observers, but I wonder how the observer(s) would have reacted if he watched for the in or out (active line call)and then he saw in-bounds but he saw also the drop just after the "in" catch ?
Would he said nothing about the catch ?
I agree with what you have written in your post - the video should be used as an example of what not to do, or more accurately, to clarify any misunderstanding of the rules.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenHowever, I question the statement made by the player - I think that to play at that level you would be pretty clear on what is a fundamental (and simple) rule. His statement makes things worse in my opinion.